MArietje Schaake is a former Dutch Member of the European Parliament. She is now the director of international policy at Stanford University’s Cyber Policy Center and a researcher in international policy at Stanford’s University. Institute for Human-Centered Artificial Intelligence. His new book is called The technological coup: how to save democracy in Silicon Valley.
In terms of power and political influence, what are the main differences between big tech and previous incarnations of big business?
The difference lies in the role that these technology companies play in many aspects of people’s lives: in the state, the economy, geopolitics. So even though previous monopolists amassed a lot of capital and large positions, they were usually active in a single sector, such as oil or automobile production. These tech companies are like octopuses with tentacles in many different directions. They have so much data, location data, research, communications, critical infrastructure, and now AI can be built on all of that assembled power, which makes these companies very different animals than us. have seen in the past.
Peter Kyle, UK Technology Secretaryrecently suggesteded that governments must demonstrate “sense of humility” with large technology companies and treat them more like nation states. What do you think?
I think this is a baffling misunderstanding of the role of a democratically elected and accountable leader. Yes, these companies have become incredibly powerful, and as such I understand the comparison with the role of states, as more and more these companies are making decisions that were once the exclusive domain of the state. But the response, especially from an increasingly tilted government, should be to reinforce the primacy of democratic governance and control, not humility. What is needed is self-confidence on the part of a democratic government to ensure that these businesses, these services, assume their rightful role in a system based on the rule of law and do not do not exceed it.
What impact do you think Donald Trump’s presidency will have?
The election of Donald Trump changes everything because he has brought together specific technological interests like no political leader ever has, especially in the United States, which constitutes this powerful geopolitical and technological center. There is a lot of crypto money supporting Trump. There are a lot of VCs (venture capitalists) backing him, and of course he raised Elon Musk and announced a deregulation program. Every action his administration takes will be influenced by these factors, whether it is the personal interests of Elon Musk and his companies, or the personal preferences of the president and his supporters. On the other hand, Musk criticizes certain dynamics around AI, namely existential risk. We’ll have to see how long the honeymoon between him and Trump lasts, and also how other big tech companies react. Because they will not be happy that Musk decides his technological policy rather than his competitors. I think of difficult times ahead.
Why have politicians been so light-hearted in the face of the digital technological revolution?
The most powerful companies we see today were all rooted in this sort of progressive, libertarian counterculture in California, this romantic tale of a few guys in shorts in a basement or garage, coding and challenging the big powers. in place: publishers of media companies, hotel branches, taxi companies, financial services, all of which had a pretty bad reputation to begin with. And there was certainly room for disruption, but that kind of underdog mentality was incredibly powerful. Companies have done a very smart job of portraying their activities as decentralizing, like the Internet itself. Companies like Google and Facebook have always argued that any regulatory action would harm the Internet. It is therefore a question of both wanting to believe the promise and not understanding the extent to which very narrow corporate interests have prevailed at the expense of the public interest.
Do you see any major politicians willing to resist big tech interests?
Well, someone like (US Senator) Elizabeth Warren has the clearest view of excessive power and abuse of corporate power, including the tech sector. She always tried to solve this problem. But generally speaking, I fear that political leaders are not really taking this issue as they should. Within the European Commission, I don’t really see a vision. I have seen elections, including in my own country, where technology was not a topic discussed at all. And we see these comments from the UK government, even though one might assume that democratic safeguards around overly powerful corporations are a given.
Were politicians held back by their technological ignorance?
Yes, I think they are intimidated. But I also think that attacks on government action are deliberate by technology companies. It’s important to understand that the way we are taught to think about technology is shaped by the technology companies themselves. So we get the narrative that governments are fundamentally disqualified from dealing with technology because they are too stupid, too outdated, and too poor at delivering services. The message is: if they can’t even process taxes on time, what do you think they’re going to do with AI? This is a caricature of the government, and the government should not adopt this caricature.
Do you think the UK has been weakened in its position against big tech following its exit from the EU?
Yes and no. Australia and Canada have developed technology policies, and their numbers are smaller than the British population. I don’t know if that’s it. I think it’s actually a much more deliberate choice to want to attract investment. So maybe it’s just a matter of self-interest that transcends the Conservative and Labor governments, because I don’t see much change in technology policy, although I had anticipated a change. I was obviously too optimistic there.
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You talk about regaining sovereignty. Do you think most people recognizeHas sovereignty been lost?
One of the reasons I wrote this book is to reach average readers, not tech experts. Explaining that this is an issue that affects people is a huge undertaking. I am curious to see how the impact of the Trump administration will provoke reactions from European leaders, but also from other countries around the world, who will simply think that we cannot afford this dependence on corporations American technology. This is not desirable. Because, essentially, we’re shipping our euros or our pounds to Silicon Valley, and what do we get in return? No more dependency. This is going to be incredibly difficult, but doing nothing is certainly not going to make things better.